Show here your disagreement.

[Manuel]

Let me be the first one to disagree with this Abstract coming from Spain.

How many early detected prostate cancers are needed to prevent one death?
Urology Department, Hospital Clinico Universitario Zaragoza, Spain.

To determine the clinical significance of diagnosis and treatment of prostate cancer diagnosed in asymptomatic patients, in terms of survival and to face its disadvantages.

We reviewed the literature in order to know the number of men that must be reviewed through analysis of PSA, biopsy and surgery to prevent the death of one of them, as well as knowing the amount of disadvantages associated with the process.

We summarized, in the case of men older than 50 years, that 1 in 9 have PSA greater than 4 ng/ml. We must biopsy 3 men if PSA is between 4 - 10 ng/ml to find one prostate cancer. In order to prolong the life of one patient it is necessary a total of 18.5 prostatectomies if the tumor is palpable and the number of prostatectomies needed in the case of non- palpable tumors is estimated five times higher. In return, there will be one death per 9791 males initially checked, one incontinence per 147 males and one impotence per 58 male impotence. Three papers report that tumor spread may be caused by the biopsies. :blink: :blink:

We highlight the limited evidence for the data in terms of survival. It warns about the difference in results between the centers of excellence and the rest, and creates doubts about the definition of cancer when it cannot be demonstrated beyond the biopsy. The usefulness of finding and treating early prostate cancers is questionable in terms of cost-benefit, recommending the transfer of this information to patients, before deciding on one or another option. We stress the need for long- term prospective investigations to clarify which cases need to be treated and to prevent overdiagnosis. We should consider whether it is worth looking further histological findings, in increasingly younger males and with lower PSA limits.

Written by:
Valle Gerhold J

[ralphv]

I think Gerhold had nothing to do one day and decided to put this paper together...
Let's see 1/9791 x 100 = 0.01% of deaths. Conclusion: get checked and your risk of a PCa death is NIL... :dance013:
Tumor spread might be caused by the biopsy???? In your dreams Gerhold :imprecations:

Gerhold needs to read the results of the Gottenberg screening study: 40% of less PCA deaths after 14 years of followup


You got me going Manuel!!!! and the guy's surname is Valle :ahhaha:

RalphV :ralph4: :ile:

[Bill]

Sounds to me like an academic trying to justify his salary. We have them in New Zealand too. What about the large number of men who do die every year because they DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING WAS WRONG UNTIL SYMPTOMS SHOWED and by then it was too late for effective treatment. I bet he gets tested! I know that I probably wouldn't be here now if my GP had his head in the sand like many of them. I spoke at a mens group a while ago and when I started by saying that I was lucky to be diagnosed with PCa I saw the strange looks as if to say " how can anyone be lucky to be diagnosed with this awful disease" They woke up quickly when I pointed out the potential consequences if I hadn't been diagnosed. I hope I made a difference that day. Several men spoke to me later and said that they intended to get a PSA test soon. Cheers folks. I haven't been on for a while-it's been one of those years. Bill

[ralphv]

Well done Bill! We need more men willing to promote awareness. Unfortunately messages like the one from Gerhold appear every day to confuse and muddy the waters. Thanks for your help.

Very best to you and family,

RalphV :ralph4: :ile:

[Bill]

Thanks for that Ralph. I do what I can just quietly, as I still work full time. An interesting thing happened to me about three months ago. I had a call at home from a GP at our local practice, apologetic for asking me, but she had a patient who had recently been diagnosed with PCa and was very confused about the help he was getting from the local specialist at the Public Hospital.He had had a biopsy and a few scans and was confused about what his next step should be. Should he pursue radiation et al, or go down the surgery route and had asked the specialist "what do you recommend?" The specialists response was something like " we are not allowed to make a recommendation. You have to make your own decision based on the information I give you".

No wonder the poor bloke was confused. Anyhow, I was happy to talk with him and went around to his house armed with my info kit, which includes several web sites including this one and our local NZ site, and the UK site with the "tool kit" which is excellent, and the Aussie site YANANOW which is also excellent. A video of others in his situation, a good book and a few other bits and pieces. I have had follow up contact with him and things are a lot better and things are happening for him and he is quite relaxed about it now and asking his own questions.

Then about a month ago I had another call from her, GP that is, with another patient who has had a bad experience with his biopsy at the Public Hospital and didn't want to go back etc, so I went to see him and he is a lot better about it now and called in to see me last weekend to return my kit and he is going to have anther biopsy when he returns from a planned holiday.

They have been comfortable with me not being a medical person and I am careful to stress that my experience is through having been in their position myself and I can give them the other side. My GP is grateful and I am happy to help. Anything to help the fight. I attended a funeral last month of an old friend of nearly 40 years standing who was diagnosed at an advanced stage. I get so angry at our Ministry of Health who do not have an education process for men. It is a lottery. Now I'm waffling. Sorry folks. All the best- Bill from NZ. Cheers.

[ralphv]

Hi Bill,
Excellent work. I always felt that by helping others we help ourselves. There is such confusion about prostate cancer that such help is extremely important to those you help. Keep up the good work! In this life the reward is in serving...

Best to you and family,

RalphV :ralph4: :ile: